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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:48 am 
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Location: France & Holland
Hi everyone,

JLA sent me this news this morning : Chris Wilkinson has just published the translation of the famed Pan-sgrub text from the Bee-ro rgyud-'bum collection. It is a very important work which clarifies the meaning of the 5 ancient translations (snga 'gyur lnga) of Sems-sde as well as the rMad-'byung. You can get the infos here :

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Secret-Upa ... 1503270041

If you haven't figured what to ask Santa Claus for Xmas, now you have a pretty good idea! :reading


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:55 am 
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Thanks a lot!

Edit: Are these related to what Norbu Rinpoche has been teaching from (as the title says "The Upadesha of Vairochana on the Practice of the Great Perfection")?

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To lack mindfulness is to be like a heartless corpse.
Friends, please be mindful!
Through the aspiration of the supreme guru, may all
friends attain firm mindfulness!
-Nyoshul Khen


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:15 pm 
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I just ordered the book. I am not a scholar, but I like to read scholarly works and this book will fit well in my library. <3

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Wizardry of pure Being, from Longchenpa's "Kindly Bent to Ease" is a really interesting paradox, a presence without anything present...Oh no, I think I just lost my mind!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Pero wrote:
Thanks a lot!

Edit: Are these related to what Norbu Rinpoche has been teaching from (as the title says "The Upadesha of Vairochana on the Practice of the Great Perfection")?


Yes. Rinpoche has edited these texts (the existing edition contains lots of spelling mistakes) and presented them, with a few clarifications added, as "Nyamtri-s" or experiential commentaries on the five earlier translations. He has transmitted these over the past few years, most recently the Tsalchen Trukpa.

It's great that work has been done on the translation of this text. But I hope Mutsuk, if she ordered the book, finds time to comment on the quality of the translation. I checked the preview on Amazon and my alarm bells went off at some places (e.g. "planetary influence" for gza'-gtad).

I also hope DC people will translate ChNN's texts as well in the future.

R


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Ratna wrote:
Yes. Rinpoche has edited these texts (the existing edition contains lots of spelling mistakes) and presented them, with a few clarifications added, as "Nyamtri-s" or experiential commentaries on the five earlier translations. He has transmitted these over the past few years, most recently the Tsalchen Trukpa.

It's great that work has been done on the translation of this text. But I hope Mutsuk, if she ordered the book, finds time to comment on the quality of the translation. I checked the preview on Amazon and my alarm bells went off at some places (e.g. "planetary influence" for gza'-gtad).

I also hope DC people will translate ChNN's texts as well in the future.

R

Thanks! I hope that is a typo hehe (book already on the way).

_________________
To lack mindfulness is to sleep in an ocean of urine.
To lack mindfulness is to be like a heartless corpse.
Friends, please be mindful!
Through the aspiration of the supreme guru, may all
friends attain firm mindfulness!
-Nyoshul Khen


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:20 pm 
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Ratna wrote:
But I hope Mutsuk, if she ordered the book, finds time to comment on the quality of the translation.

No, I haven't ordered the book. I just forwarded the info that JLA sent me. I hope it's good, but from the gza'-gtad rendering that you quote, I feel reserved... The Pan-sgrub is a very important work for Sems-sde, I hope the rest of the rendering is good. There is also some work by Matthew Kapstein on this text in the RET online, but of course it's an academic study, not a translation.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:03 pm 
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I received the book yesterday and read some of it and well... I don't know. In parts it looks good and in parts really strange. Sometimes it seems like the translator didn't even consider whether the sentence makes any sense or not. Google translate came to mind sometimes... However I suppose some of the strangeness could be due to the Tibetan text itself being written in such a way. Part of it is perhaps because of the mistakes in Tibetan text (there are a lot of them if I recall correctly?). :shrug

And the use of "planetary influence" is simply mind boggling, if Ratna hadn't pointed it out I'd be left scratching my head as to what in the world the text is talking about.

Has anyone read his translations of the three tantras? Thoughts? I didn't get them yet and after looking at this am not sure I want to.

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To lack mindfulness is to sleep in an ocean of urine.
To lack mindfulness is to be like a heartless corpse.
Friends, please be mindful!
Through the aspiration of the supreme guru, may all
friends attain firm mindfulness!
-Nyoshul Khen


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:47 pm 
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He has some Sakya works he's translated that I wanted to get. Now I'm a bit hesitant.

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grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:04 pm 
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I bought the Vairochana book and I am very disappointed. As someone who was a professional translator for 25 years, this is, IMO, a very poor translation. I would not recommend it to anyone. Further, the fact that Wilkinson has published it himself should've been a tip-off for me. Everyone needs an editor (and a professional proofreader) if not also peer review. This is a great example of knowing the words, but not really grokking the meaning. Too many non-sensical grammatical constructions show he has not really internalized the material. People in the 8th century, especially realized people, were not unintelligible. All this goes to show the importance of translators of Dzogchen having both a knowledge of the departure language, extra special abilities in writing the arrival language, AND some degree of realization.

Sorry, this is just my POV.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:58 pm 
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My apologies to all for having advertised the publication of this book here. I haven't bought or read it myself, just forwarded the info. I'll avoid this in the future. :oops:


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