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 Post subject: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:41 am 
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What category of teaching does Thrangu Rinpoche's "Vivid Awareness" fall under? Is this what is called "sutra mahamudra"?

Does the distinguishing of "mind" from "awareness" in the book relate in any way to Dzogchen's distinguishing sems from sems-nyid?

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The second part of the instructions is distinguishing mind from awareness. Sometimes we are distracted, and sometimes we are not. When we are distracted, that is mind, and when we are undistracted, that is awareness. When we are not distracted, it is very easy to know the nature of the mind. But when we are distracted, we have many different thoughts that prevent us from knowing the mind-essence.

From years of trying to make sense of this question, it seems to me that the Mahamudra recognition of mind essence is not meant to be the same as the Dzogchen recognition of rigpa. Or at least, a more basic recognition qualifies for the former. Maybe someone has a clear(er) answer here.

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This undistracted state of ordinary mind / Is the meditation. / One will understand it in due course. -- Gampopa

When all that needs to be done is to rest in yourself, it is amazing that you are deluded by seeking elsewhere!
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 Post subject: Re: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 am 
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Both systems say 'observe directly without analyzing'.


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 Post subject: Re: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:40 am 
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Mustang Cave wrote:
Both systems say 'observe directly without analyzing'.


In the case of Dzogchen, observing directly without analyzing does not constitute a separation of mind and vidyā. An indeterminate and neutral act of observation is equivalent to śamatha, a practice that is performed by resting in the clarity of mind. The clarity (cognizance) of mind must be recognized as empty - meaning; unborn, unestablished, unreal - for vidyā to occur. Observing directly without analysis is an activity of mind and implies a subtle grasping, this is why the practice of Dzogchen is predicated on recognizing the nature of mind as nondual clarity and emptiness. Only then does vidyā become apparent. Śamatha is a necessary practice, but śamatha isn't vidyā.


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 Post subject: Re: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:53 am 
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I take it to be a dzogchen text, especially as it has togal instructions at the end. I don't think it really matters.

Tsele Natsok Rangdrol's Circle of the Sun might answer your question:
Quote:
By the power of your own devotion and your master's blessings you will feel a special confidence of experience, although you will not be able to describe it because your mind does not consist of any concrete substance whatsoever. You may think "There is no ‘thing' that wanders in samsara or something that will attain enlightenment! How sad that sentient beings don't recognize that they abide as dharmakaya! Everything dawns as emptiness!” This is regarded by the Mahamudra system as the beginning of simplicity. Something resembling this may occur during the stage of one-pointedness. However in that case, intellectual understanding predominates. Here, where experience has arisen it is 'lesser simplicity.'

The Mahamudra system explains that if you don't stay alert at this point there is a danger of straying into ‘lethargic samatha.’ Dzogchen recognizes no such danger, since rigpa alone is taken as the main part of the practice.

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"Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep." – Rene Daumal
"People who know how to keep their mouths shut are rare." - Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche


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 Post subject: Re: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:16 am 
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I'm pretty sure it's Buddhist.

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Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu


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 Post subject: Re: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:46 am 
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The text was considered a mengagde mind treasure. Khenpo Gangshar was sort of feared.

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 Post subject: Re: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:51 am 
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Mustang Cave wrote:
Both systems say 'observe directly without analyzing'.


Frogs and hawks also directly observe without analyzing -- are they somehow to be understood as Dzogchen/Mahāmudra masters? Of course not.

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 Post subject: Re: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:52 am 
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deepbluehum wrote:
The text was considered a mengagde mind treasure. Khenpo Gangshar was sort of feared.


Mostly, it seems, because he encouraged monks to get naked.

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 Post subject: Re: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:
The text was considered a mengagde mind treasure. Khenpo Gangshar was sort of feared.


Mostly, it seems, because he encouraged monks to get naked.


Nice. Here in SF nuns walk around naked in a BSDM parade. Wouldn't have much shock value. Perhaps for the Chinese.

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 Post subject: Re: Vivid Awareness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:32 pm 
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deepbluehum wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:
The text was considered a mengagde mind treasure. Khenpo Gangshar was sort of feared.


Mostly, it seems, because he encouraged monks to get naked.


Nice. Here in SF nuns walk around naked in a BSDM parade. Wouldn't have much shock value. Perhaps for the Chinese.


No, not at all. Different times.

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