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 Post subject: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:40 pm 
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Today, the 25th day of the lunar mid winter month, is the most important feast day of Heruka.

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 Post subject: Re: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:51 pm 
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Any recommended translations of the root Cakrasamvara tantra and commentaries?

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 Post subject: Re: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:14 pm 
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Mother's Lap wrote:
Any recommended translations of the root Cakrasamvara tantra and commentaries?



I never read David Gonzalez's, so I cannot comment on it.

David Grey's is fine as far as it goes, but as he does not translate on the basis of any living tradition of exegesis, his way of reading the text is markedly different than the way the text is read by Sakya Tradition in many places. There are also some places where he cannot believe what the text says and therefore, reads it differently than what is intended.

The Sakya school's exegesis of the text is based on an exclusive oral tradition that comes from Naropa.

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 Post subject: Re: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:08 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
David Grey's is fine as far as it goes, but as he does not translate on the basis of any living tradition of exegesis, his way of reading the text is markedly different than the way the text is read by Sakya Tradition in many places. There are also some places where he cannot believe what the text says and therefore, reads it differently than what is intended.



Please elaborate.

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 Post subject: Re: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:28 am 
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Today is also Dakini day and Valentine's day. I wonder how often that happens?

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 Post subject: Re: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:44 am 
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dzogchungpa wrote:
Today is also Dakini day and Valentine's day. I wonder how often that happens?


The definition of the tenth day of the waxing and waning moons as the feast days is a tradition that, AFAIK, has its origin in the yoginī tantras (along with such key concepts as the 24 lands and thirty-two places), specifically, the Laghusamvara tantra. It is not actually a "dakini" day.

In general the offering days recommended in the these tantras is actually the tenth and 14th of the waxing and waning moons. Of these, the tenth day of the waning moon of the middle lunar month of the winter is the most important. This does not line up with the Tibetan calendar since the vernal equinox this year as actually the first day of the second Tibetan month.

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 Post subject: Re: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:55 am 
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LinkAndZelda wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
David Grey's is fine as far as it goes, but as he does not translate on the basis of any living tradition of exegesis, his way of reading the text is markedly different than the way the text is read by Sakya Tradition in many places. There are also some places where he cannot believe what the text says and therefore, reads it differently than what is intended.

Please elaborate.



I'd rather not. Suffice it to say that sometimes he just gets it plain wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:19 am 
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Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Today is also Dakini day and Valentine's day. I wonder how often that happens?


The definition of the tenth day of the waxing and waning moons as the feast days is a tradition that, AFAIK, has its origin in the yoginī tantras (along with such key concepts as the 24 lands and thirty-two places), specifically, the Laghusamvara tantra. It is not actually a "dakini" day.

In general the offering days recommended in the these tantras is actually the tenth and 14th of the waxing and waning moons. Of these, the tenth day of the waning moon of the middle lunar month of the winter is the most important. This does not line up with the Tibetan calendar since the vernal equinox this year as actually the first day of the second Tibetan month.

So are you saying that there is no such thing as "Dakini day"?

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 Post subject: Re: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:02 pm 
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dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Today is also Dakini day and Valentine's day. I wonder how often that happens?


The definition of the tenth day of the waxing and waning moons as the feast days is a tradition that, AFAIK, has its origin in the yoginī tantras (along with such key concepts as the 24 lands and thirty-two places), specifically, the Laghusamvara tantra. It is not actually a "dakini" day.

In general the offering days recommended in the these tantras is actually the tenth and 14th of the waxing and waning moons. Of these, the tenth day of the waning moon of the middle lunar month of the winter is the most important. This does not line up with the Tibetan calendar since the vernal equinox this year as actually the first day of the second Tibetan month.

So are you saying that there is no such thing as "Dakini day"?



It has come to be a popular tradition to associate the tenth day of the waxing moon with a guru puja, and the tenth day of the waning moon with a dakini puja, but I don't really see any evidence in the Indian texts that we have available on the subject for a specific statement that the tenth day of the waning moon is actually a "dakini" day.

So the answer is that the twenty fifth day of the lunar month both is and isn't "dakini" day.

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 Post subject: Re: Heruka New Year
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:15 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Today is also Dakini day and Valentine's day. I wonder how often that happens?


The definition of the tenth day of the waxing and waning moons as the feast days is a tradition that, AFAIK, has its origin in the yoginī tantras (along with such key concepts as the 24 lands and thirty-two places), specifically, the Laghusamvara tantra. It is not actually a "dakini" day.

In general the offering days recommended in the these tantras is actually the tenth and 14th of the waxing and waning moons. Of these, the tenth day of the waning moon of the middle lunar month of the winter is the most important. This does not line up with the Tibetan calendar since the vernal equinox this year as actually the first day of the second Tibetan month.

So are you saying that there is no such thing as "Dakini day"?



It has come to be a popular tradition to associate the tenth day of the waxing moon with a guru puja, and the tenth day of the waning moon with a dakini puja, but I don't really see any evidence in the Indian texts that we have available on the subject for a specific statement that the tenth day of the waning moon is actually a "dakini" day.

So the answer is that the twenty fifth day of the lunar month both is and isn't "dakini" day.



just like those Dakinis ... can't ever quite pin them down ... :D


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